On Jan. 20, 2025, Dr. Lori Moore-Merrell resigned as U.S. fire administrator, vacating the post she’d held since 2021. The departure was a difficult one, naturally; however, the fire administrator is appointed by the president and changes with each new administration.
I spoke with Dr. Moore-Merrell about her time in office, what she regards as her biggest accomplishments during her tenure, and her perspective on the future of the fire service, particularly the role of the USFA and FEMA.
FireRescue1: One of the hallmarks of your time at the U.S. Fire Administration (USFA) was to strengthen the collaboration among the many fire service organizations through the Fire Service One Voice initiative. Do you believe those efforts will continue?
Dr. Lori Moore-Merrell: In my last letter to all the national organizational leaders, I let them know that my greatest desire as I closeout my time in office is that they stay together: “You take this momentum, and you continue forward together. Because in solidarity is how you’re going to continue to accomplish, how we’re going to continue to fill the gaps. We’re going to continue to have a voice, not just one organization or another, but all of you, collectively, can bring change where change is needed.”
What are you most proud of from your time at the USFA?
My main goal going in was also my main goal coming out, and that was to change the data system – so, I am most proud of the National Emergency Response Information System (NERIS), 100%. I knew that the legacy National Fire Incident Reporting System (NFIRS) had to change, because in my research in years past, our Achilles heel was the lack of quality data, or the lack of any data at all that was useable because of the timeliness or lack thereof. So for me, that was the mission going in. Then, I found so many other goals once I understood what needed to be accomplished for the whole fire service and the overall mission of the USFA based on the 1974 Fire Prevention and Control Act.
NERIS was launched on Nov. 4, with over 600 departments added by the end of January. I believe that’s the pinnacle of the four years, to be able to accomplish that.
How confident are you in acting Fire Administrator Chief Donna Black’s ability to lead the organization?
I am wholly confident in Donna. I swore her in when she became president of the International Association of Fire Chiefs and then I got to swear her in [as acting administrator at the USFA]. She was in lockstep with my administration every step of the way, and she has a very calm and consistent demeanor. Donna will continue to coalesce the team and find a path forward.
I also told her there may be occasions where she must get in the room at FEMA and DHS. You have to say, “Excuse me, can I sit in on this?” You’ll have to show some humility inside FEMA, but you’ve got to carry the water for USFA. I also asked the leadership remaining inside FEMA, “Please don’t let USFA go back in the shadows and sit [at the National Fire Academy] in Emmitsburg.”We’re here now, we’re part of FEMA, and so that must remain.
There has been some discussion by the new White House administration around eliminating FEMA as a government agency. Do you agree?
FEMA must exist. It has a mission itself that must exist. They coordinate all federal partner activities in a disaster. So, they’re like the incident commander of all the activity for the response for disaster. States and local governments will handle what they can handle on their own – until they can’t. And that’s why the program was established by President Carter.
Are there some tweaks that can be made within the different areas of FEMA and what they provide and the mission assignments and all of that? Of course, efficiency can always be found, and effectiveness can always be enhanced, but the mission itself I believe must carry on.
What’s your perspective on the USFA’s role within FEMA-declared disasters?
USFA’s role in FEMA can certainly be elevated and enhanced. During my four years, we had a fantastic FEMA administrator, I said, “We’ve got to elevate USFA.’” And she said, “Just tell me what you need.” And so, we worked in lockstep along that way.
USFA and its mission should be frontline, not just in Emergency Support Function #4, in which USFA is a co-lead. In my opinion, USFA should be the lead on the firefighting piece of that function. ESF 4 has never been mission-assigned for actual firefighting, so there’s a lot that can be done under ESF 4, as we revamp and look at what the landscape of firefighting for response across the nation looks like.
As Congress looks at FEMA and assesses what it should be doing, what should carry on and how it can be fixed, what is USFA’s role in it? I can tell you, it needs to be more prominent than it is today. Congress needs to understand we have a U.S. Fire Administration, and that administration is the frontline connection with all local and state fire departments across this nation – they are boots on the ground first, long before there’s any kind of federal activity, and USFA is your conduit to them.
So, understanding that role is something that I hope comes out of this discussion because there’s some thinking right now that the U.S. Forest Service is the front line of firefighting in this nation, and that could not be further from the truth. Is that the federal response if trees are burning? Yes, but in our communities, it’s our local and state fire departments who are handling this. Now, does the USFS have capability where they’re in their interface activities that they come in and help? Absolutely, yes. But they’re not the federal government’s frontline response, and that’s totally misunderstood right now.
And that’s part of the ineffectiveness or inefficiency of what is happening in response today, and how USFA has been left out and underutilized for its role in the community connection with our local and state fire departments. Having USFA activated and leveraged for a disaster when fire is involved has got to be elevated.
There have been many theories floated as to why the Los Angeles wildfires were so devastating, with some blaming a lack of water or a lack of personnel due to low recruitment numbers. Is there any truth to these theories?
They could have had thousands more firefighters. It wasn’t going to change the outcome. We have to be clear about that – this was a weather event that was exacerbated by a massive fuel load of structures in close proximity, many of them not built to code with a lot of vegetation in between. The variables that contributed to this disaster response effectiveness weren’t going to change what existed in these neighborhoods that were waiting for an ignition. The extreme winds and the drought cannot be influenced but, the structures that became fuel and all the other combustibles in the area– these variables needed to be changed before there was an ignition. It seems that most people look to the situation like, “Oh, we can live like we want to live, firefighters will show up and take care of it.” That’s not how this works. We must get in front of this risk.
You’ve got to change the scale and scope of the risk environment. We must be forceful about that. Insurance is going to have to play a role along with decision-makers, because there is no number of firefighters that will be able to respond to these kinds of events. They are fighting an unwinnable battle.
This is the larger picture that we as a nation have to understand. And it’s not just Southern California, I want to make that abundantly clear. Across the nation, we are placing communities in the path of fire and building them in ways that are not fire resistant. We can’t have it both ways. So, this is a nationwide problem.
Are departments in other major U.S. cities preparing for the possibility of responding to a conflagration like the Los Angeles fires?
The FDNY has taken notice. They came out to see what this type fire looks like to scale because they were thinking, “How are they burning 10,000 acres in a city? How do you burn huge numbers of structures?” They came to see and understand, and it was abundantly clear to them how the variables are different, though the same thing could happen in New York City. If allowed to have the same variables at play, they can have the same situation. So they’re going to be purchasing new wildfire gear and likely new equipment. They’re going to make all of these changes because they realize very astutely that this is not a California problem. This is a nationwide problem, and we must talk about it in those terms.
What needs to change to protect communities from these types of once-in-generation fires as the climate changes and weather events become more extreme?
From the top down… we’re going to need decision-makers from the White House to Congress, to the governors, all the way down to mayors and city managers to choose a different path.
They’re going to have to exercise authority and policies and adopt codes. We have codes; if you’re going to build in the wildland-urban interface (WUI), the International Code Council (ICC) has a WUI code. If you build to code, you’ve built with fire resistance. It also talks about vegetation, outbuildings and proximity of structures, so this is not new. We know what the risks are. We need them to not just adopt the codes but provide for an authority at the local level to enforce the codes. And so these are the sorts of things that have got to happen.
We also need fire departments at those levels educating the public, helping homeowners understand, for example, you can’t use mulch. You need to use stone. I know you want trees. We need fewer of them and not within 5 feet of your home. No bushes. No shrubs – use succulent plants instead. You need that level of continuing public education, and individual homeowners have got to take action. The residents who live in these fire prone areas have got to do it themselves, because there are not enough firefighters to police individual properties. They have the authority to enforce, but individuals are going to have to do it.
Another lever to be used is the insurance agencies. But what we need them to do is not pull out in total and say, forget it, we’re not insuring. We need them to exercise some levers to say, if you do A, B, C, and D, you can have insurance. It’s going to be costly, but if you’ve done these things, and your neighborhood has done them, you can be insured. It is important to note that for wildfire, you can do everything right, but if your neighbor doesn’t, you’re still going to be in trouble. This is the risk environment. We need insurers to help us understand what levers they can pull to bring change and reduce risk – don’t pull out, because then we’re going to lose whole communities who can’t afford to build back if they don’t have insurance. So, we need insurance to work with the fire industry to exercise what they can, but not to abandon.
What do you hope for the future of the fire service in the next five years?
First and foremost, I’m hoping that USFA is continually elevated because they are the representative of the fire service at the federal level, and they are the spokesperson. I really hope somebody wakes up and realizes the USFA needs to be elevated as a recognized voice for the nation’s fire service on the inside of federal government.
The other thing that I hope is that our national organizations stick together and collaborate. I hope they meet together, understand each other and advocate together at the local, state and federal level for the elevation of not just our firefighters with boots on the ground, but also the people doing the training, those providing public education, as well as our community risk reduction forces that are out there advocating for public education as well.
What’s next for you in your career?
I’m going to do some speaking, so certainly going to be available for the fire service as a whole, whether it’s on leadership or whether it’s in terms of, “What do we do now?” I’m going to do some work with technology. I’m already going on a couple of boards to continue an advocacy role for innovation and technology, as well as wildfire issues. I think this is going to be not just across the U.S., which is a major problem, but globally, as we continue to watch the change in our climate and environment. I’ll do some of that, and then we’ll see what opportunities arise. I’m certainly open to opportunities and ready to serve.
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